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| jps246 |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 8:33 am |
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Reviews written: 856 Member since: Jan 25 '01
 in Outdoor Gear, Sporting Goods |
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RE: shifting of the IS pot
Quote: popsrocks May have something to do with it but
Ours is not to reason why.
Ours is but to (write) or die
I know you're the eternal optomist Pops, I try to stay on the bright side of life too.
But what do you say to the folks who are not as well distributed across the site's categories as you and I are and who don't want to review other items? That they are basically going to die? Their IS hasn't been increasing since the database integration, it has been decreasing.
Jeff
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| lyagushka |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 9:24 am |
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Reviews written: 418 Member since: Jan 08 '02
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: popsrocks Travel has been doing very well both old reviews and new ones posted this year...including Caribbean destinations.
pops
My Travel reviews have been doing well compared to the IS they used to receive, back when I held hats in the category. But the amounts are laughably trivial compared to what a middling review in a well compensated category would expect to see.
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| popsrocks |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 10:16 am |
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Reviews written: 2202 Member since: Aug 25 '02
in Gourmet, Restaurants |
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RE: shifting of the IS pot
Quote: jps246 I know you're the eternal optomist Pops, I try to stay on the bright side of life too.
But what do you say to the folks who are not as well distributed across the site's categories as you and I are and who don't want to review other items? That they are basically going to die? Their IS hasn't been increasing since the database integration, it has been decreasing.
Jeff
It's never too late to diversify...and make a couple of bucks per review while doing so.
pops
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| popsrocks |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 4:03 pm (Updated: Jun 05 '08, 4:13 pm) |
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Reviews written: 2202 Member since: Aug 25 '02
in Gourmet, Restaurants |
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what to say...
Quote: jps246 I know you're the eternal optomist Pops, I try to stay on the bright side of life too.
But what do you say to the folks who are not as well distributed across the site's categories as you and I are and who don't want to review other items? That they are basically going to die? Their IS hasn't been increasing since the database integration, it has been decreasing.
Jeff
I was on the road earlier and perhaps didn't read your words as carefully as I should have.
The part I missed, But what do you say to the folks who are not as well distributed across the site's categories as you and I are and who don't want to review other items?
I don't have to say anything to them. They are big boys and girls and can make their own decisions. My take is this. First try and diversify. Yes, I'm repeating my self but, that's how I can ride out a problem in one category or another. It's a viable option to sitting around doing nothing or wringing hands, or feeling badly.
If there's an attitude that they don't want to review anything but product in a particular category then as big boys and girls they have to decide if waiting works. We have been promised that issues are being worked on and that there may be a satisfactory end to those issues in the months to come. What else can be said right now. We don't like it but it doesn't help to dwell on it either.
Choices are there to be made. From my observation there are plenty of people who are very happy writing without getting IS. I see people writing one review after the next in the spirit and food category where not a cent of IS is forthcoming. I see the same with Novelty items in Toys. Just about every person who has jumped on those bandwagons should know by now that it's not a place for earning IS and quite frankly I don't believe a place with much future for IS, even after the bugs are shaken out, anyway.
For those in categories like Sports, Beauty and such that have really taken a beating, I feel for them because much of what they built up is temporarily gone. Again, they are promised a future and I hope all is rectified.
We all know there are problems on the site right now but, I simply can't continue dwelling on the negatives.
There are also some very bright parts of Epinions shining right now.
The IS has continued to grow for many people. The extra dollar or two for every review is certainly more than many reviews gain in IS over the long haul. This place isn't always about the money we gain for ourselves. There's much more to it. As a big boy I'm going to write more reviews that don't have the /review/ issue attached. I'll still write many such reviews for three reasons.
One is that this month the proceeds of those reviews will be donated toward a charity of a dear community member.
The second reason is that we are promised a fix, sooner or later. As a big boy, and though I may throw a temper tantrum now and then, I can deal with that.
The third is because there are products, services and destinations I am just driven to write about whether or not there is any IS or promotion money.
Could I leave the site, sure. Could others and have others? Sure. That's simply not my choice and as far as your question, "what do you say to the folks...?" I say, There's nothing to say. They must make up their own mind. There are many options out there." Epinions knows it, I know it, and big boys and girls know it.
pops
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| popsrocks |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 4:07 pm (Updated: Jun 05 '08, 4:18 pm) |
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Reviews written: 2202 Member since: Aug 25 '02
in Gourmet, Restaurants |
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Grabbing the brass rings
Quote: lyagushka My Travel reviews have been doing well compared to the IS they used to receive, back when I held hats in the category. But the amounts are laughably trivial compared to what a middling review in a well compensated category would expect to see.
I agree so every once in a while riding on the Epinions Merry-Go-Round, I reach out for one of those brass rings in Electronics and/or Appliances. Add one or two of those to your Epinions portfolio each month and you too can do a happy dance.
popsdoin'ahappydanceeverytimeISisdistributed
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| jps246 |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 6:39 pm |
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Reviews written: 856 Member since: Jan 25 '01
in Outdoor Gear, Sporting Goods |
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RE: what to say...
Quote: popsrocks We all know there are problems on the site right now but, I simply can't continue dwelling on the negatives.
I know that's not what I've been trying to do. I've been trying to get answers and understand why the problems are what they are, what is being done to try to rectify them and why in some cases, things are getting worse. Do I want to know those answers? Yes, but I guess none are really going to be forthcoming until the day we see hits starting to accumulate once again and anyone's guess is good enough for that date probably.
I'll go back to the Outdoor Gear/Sporting Good boards and report that back to the folks there. And in the end, I guess I just don't have anything else to say.
Jeff
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| CyndiA |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 7:42 pm |
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Reviews written: 1158 Member since: Jun 25 '00
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RE: what to say...
Quote: popsrocks I was on the road earlier and perhaps didn't read your words as carefully as I should have.
The part I missed, But what do you say to the folks who are not as well distributed across the site's categories as you and I are and who don't want to review other items?
I don't have to say anything to them. They are big boys and girls and can make their own decisions. My take is this. First try and diversify. Yes, I'm repeating my self but, that's how I can ride out a problem in one category or another. It's a viable option to sitting around doing nothing or wringing hands, or feeling badly.
If there's an attitude that they don't want to review anything but product in a particular category then as big boys and girls they have to decide if waiting works. We have been promised that issues are being worked on and that there may be a satisfactory end to those issues in the months to come. What else can be said right now. We don't like it but it doesn't help to dwell on it either.
Choices are there to be made. From my observation there are plenty of people who are very happy writing without getting IS. I see people writing one review after the next in the spirit and food category where not a cent of IS is forthcoming. I see the same with Novelty items in Toys. Just about every person who has jumped on those bandwagons should know by now that it's not a place for earning IS and quite frankly I don't believe a place with much future for IS, even after the bugs are shaken out, anyway.
For those in categories like Sports, Beauty and such that have really taken a beating, I feel for them because much of what they built up is temporarily gone. Again, they are promised a future and I hope all is rectified.
We all know there are problems on the site right now but, I simply can't continue dwelling on the negatives.
There are also some very bright parts of Epinions shining right now.
The IS has continued to grow for many people. The extra dollar or two for every review is certainly more than many reviews gain in IS over the long haul. This place isn't always about the money we gain for ourselves. There's much more to it. As a big boy I'm going to write more reviews that don't have the /review/ issue attached. I'll still write many such reviews for three reasons.
One is that this month the proceeds of those reviews will be donated toward a charity of a dear community member.
The second reason is that we are promised a fix, sooner or later. As a big boy, and though I may throw a temper tantrum now and then, I can deal with that.
The third is because there are products, services and destinations I am just driven to write about whether or not there is any IS or promotion money.
Could I leave the site, sure. Could others and have others? Sure. That's simply not my choice and as far as your question, "what do you say to the folks...?" I say, There's nothing to say. They must make up their own mind. There are many options out there." Epinions knows it, I know it, and big boys and girls know it.
pops
Ouch! I do write across the categories, but the rule of thumb here has been to focus. I've heard that since I started. It just wasn't my style, so I did my own thing. That worked out, and I'm thankful. I do understand where others have a passion in certain categories. My kid hit outdoor products. That's what he loves. Very few hits. No IS. I hate to see him log in and see that. |
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| morilla |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 8:27 pm |
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Reviews written: 205 Member since: Oct 09 '04
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RE: what to say...
Quote: popsrocks I don't have to say anything to them...
My take is this. First try and diversify...It's a viable option to sitting around doing nothing or wringing hands, or feeling badly...
If there's an attitude that they don't want to review anything but product in a particular category then as big boys and girls they have to decide if waiting works. We have been promised that issues are being worked on and that there may be a satisfactory end to those issues in the months to come. What else can be said right now. We don't like it but it doesn't help to dwell on it either...
pops
Actually, you've said quite a lot; in a rather interesting tone. Essentially, your message is: "Stop whining. Others are making money and/or having a good time. If you don't like it, you can leave." Thus, the choices you present are: A.) Shut up. (B.) Shut up, write whether you get anything for it or not, and hope things work out down the road. Or, (C.) Shut up and leave.
Now, that may not have been your intention or it may just be a result of your being tired of hearing about the problems. But, cutting it down to the nub, that's what you have said to "them."
The 'attitude' of writing in a particular category might just have something to do with wanting to build up a particular area; attracting readers from a niche that may have been or may be otherwise ignored. It also may stem from having a certain knowledge in that area and not wanting to or feeling comfortable with posting supposed reviews on products based on a very limited understanding of the field; based on one's in-law's or former college roommate's second cousin's experience with or having seen it on the shelf at the store or whatever; or based on having an opinion on "anything and everything." |
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| morilla |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 8:39 pm |
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Reviews written: 205 Member since: Oct 09 '04
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RE: what to say...
Quote: popsrocks ...Choices are there to be made. From my observation there are plenty of people who are very happy writing without getting IS...it's not a place for earning IS and quite frankly I don't believe a place with much future for IS, even after the bugs are shaken out, anyway...
For those in categories like Sports, Beauty and such that have really taken a beating, I feel for them because much of what they built up is temporarily gone. Again, they are promised a future and I hope all is rectified...
We all know there are problems on the site right now but, I simply can't continue dwelling on the negatives...
There are also some very bright parts of Epinions shining right now.
The IS has continued to grow for many people...
The extra dollar or two for every review is certainly more than many reviews gain in IS over the long haul...
This place isn't always about the money we gain for ourselves. There's much more to it. As a big boy I'm going to write more reviews that don't have the /review/ issue attached...
Could I leave the site, sure. Could others and have others? Sure. That's simply not my choice and as far as your question, "what do you say to the folks...?" I say, There's nothing to say. They must make up their own mind. There are many options out there." Epinions knows it, I know it, and big boys and girls know it.
pops
It may also stem from an understanding that this is supposed to be a product review site, not a blog site or a writer's forum where one indulges their desire to write under the guise of "reviewing" a product. While Epinions has space for that (message boards & writer's corners), that's not the heart of the business. For those reviews, Epinions has promised a certain remuneration. Mature adults expect such a 'contract' to be lived up to.
There is always a considerable amount of time devoted to welcoming new members. I think where we have a problem in this case is that "older" members are the ones feeling somewhat unwelcome at the moment. Categories that some have worked hard to 'build,' are now, for all intents and purposes, dead or dying. Did these individuals build the categories for beau coup IS? I'd say no. But, I'm sure that IS and MPA etc. lists were a notable portion of the 'reward' for many.
The reason IS has grown for many is part of the unwelcome feeling among many of the older members. The jump many have seen are a direct derivative of the work of others; i.e., their reviews have been hit by the /review/ "bug" and not being recognized, so the IS pot in that category is being shared by fewer individuals - many of those individuals not being "invested" in the category, i.e., not hatted and thereby not having a 'focused attitude' in that area.
The 10-4-10 rewards prolific writers; whether newbies dumping SH reviews for a quick buck or older members who self-admittedly spend 4-6 hrs. per day on the site. For older, steadier, but less prolific members, the growing sense is that their past contributions are no longer valued and if they can't diversify and produce at a substantially greater rate, their future contributions are no longer worth reward.
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| sleeper54 |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 8:40 pm |
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Reviews written: 496 Member since: Feb 24 '01
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RE: what to say...
Quote: morilla --snip--
Thus, the choices you present are: A.) Shut up. (B.) Shut up, write whether you get anything for it or not, and hope things work out down the road. Or, (C.) Shut up and leave.
Now, that may not have been your intention or it may just be a result of your being tired of hearing about the problems. But, cutting it down to the nub, that's what you have said to "them."
--snip--
Interesting.
I chose to read it more positively. Choose what you want to do here based on the 'performance parameters' of the site as they are now. Not as they once were. Not as you want them to be. Not as they might be in the future.
Implied in that is the suggestion that one choose their behavior based on what they can do to make himself/herself happy, now. Not what others can do to make them happy.
Sounds fair to me. and not a smidgen of 'shut up' did I hear...
...tom...
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| popsrocks |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 8:41 pm |
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Reviews written: 2202 Member since: Aug 25 '02
in Gourmet, Restaurants |
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RE: what to say...
Quote: morilla Actually, you've said quite a lot; in a rather interesting tone. Essentially, your message is: "Stop whining. Others are making money and/or having a good time. If you don't like it, you can leave." Thus, the choices you present are: A.) Shut up. (B.) Shut up, write whether you get anything for it or not, and hope things work out down the road. Or, (C.) Shut up and leave.
Now, that may not have been your intention or it may just be a result of your being tired of hearing about the problems. But, cutting it down to the nub, that's what you have said to "them."
The 'attitude' of writing in a particular category might just have something to do with wanting to build up a particular area; attracting readers from a niche that may have been or may be otherwise ignored. It also may stem from having a certain knowledge in that area and not wanting to or feeling comfortable with posting supposed reviews on products based on a very limited understanding of the field; based on one's in-law's or former college roommate's second cousin's experience with or having seen it on the shelf at the store or whatever; or based on having an opinion on "anything and everything."
It seems we can all read into things the way we like.
My words are there to go through again.
No where did I say leave.
Everywhere I noted what can be done whether work to diversify, continue making a few dollars through the $20-4-10VH reviews or simply to wait out the problem of the issues.
NEVER would I suggest people shut up or leave.
Please read it again.
Thanks,
pops
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| morilla |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 8:51 pm |
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Reviews written: 205 Member since: Oct 09 '04
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RE: what to say...
Then, when these older members who are 'suffering' dare question, ask, or 'make noise,' they're told to stop raining on everyone's parade, shut up or go elsewhere. Not to mention the message being sent to new members that some categories will no longer pay and that one should cherry pick those products to be reviewed.
Somehow, I'm not sure those are messages Epinions intends to send. It's also not something that those actually "invested" in those categories (whether as Advisors, TR's, or regular contributors) want to see in that if the category isn't dead already, it is essentially telling people not to contribute; thus, killing the category anyway.
As for promises of fixes in the future...
After 8 months plus of promises and assertions, it is understandable that 'trust' among members might be a bit wavery. We've been repeatedly told that the 10-4-10 is not replacing IS, but that seems to be the only answer given by a substantial number as the only effective way to offset the loss of IS. "We're working on it" or "We're aware of the problem" is not an answer, it is an equivocation tantamount to many as "Yeah. So?"
On top of that, others who happen to be reaping the benefits of others misfortunes at the moment, get to crowing about their good fortune; intentionally or not, rubbing salt in an open wound. Then when those 'hurting' cry "ouch," their told to "suck it up" and be a "big boy/girl."
For one reason or another, we're all getting a bit fed up with the issues; some because it's impacting them directly, others because they're tired of hearing about it. As someone else said, these issues are becoming tedious. But, I don't think the answer is continuing to tell those not being allowed to 'eat the birthday cake' or those benched with a 'sprained ankle' that they should stop acting like children when they express a certain level of frustration; especially since many have been patient and not expressed that frustration very much, if at all, over the last 8 + months.
Them be my thoughts on the matter. |
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| morilla |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 8:57 pm |
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Reviews written: 205 Member since: Oct 09 '04
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RE: what to say...
Quote: sleeper54 Interesting.
I chose to read it more positively. Choose what you want to do here based on the 'performance parameters' of the site as they are now. Not as they once were. Not as you want them to be. Not as they might be in the future...
...tom...
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I think therein lies a big part of the issue. What we are being told is supposed to be is not what IS happening. This creates confusion and frustration. I don't think anyone actually thinks things are going to be "what they were." I think where the problem stems from is that people want things to be working the way we've been told they're supposed to be.
As for how one "chooses" to read something. I prefer that writers choose to convey what they have to say in such a way that it not be ignored, misquoted, or misunderstood. Otherwise, it becomes too easy not to take responsibility for what one said/meant if the 'politics' become uncomfortable. You know, something between 'short & sweet' and a diatribe. |
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| popsrocks |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 9:05 pm |
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Reviews written: 2202 Member since: Aug 25 '02
in Gourmet, Restaurants |
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RE: what to say...
Quote: CyndiA Ouch! I do write across the categories, but the rule of thumb here has been to focus. I've heard that since I started. It just wasn't my style, so I did my own thing. That worked out, and I'm thankful. I do understand where others have a passion in certain categories. My kid hit outdoor products. That's what he loves. Very few hits. No IS. I hate to see him log in and see that.
What you say "rule of thumb here has been to focus" I believe is in reference to trying to earn a TR hat. No where else do I see "focus" being implied or nurtured.
We are free to write what and where we like. I do believe that most/many of us do tend to write more in particular areas, especially when starting out. There are categories that become a passion to us. I know I have that in Travel.
As I mentioned in my piece you quoted, I do feel sorry for your "kid" and others who have built up their library in a category that has been hit hard. There's not much else I can say about that.
We can only hope that this will all get cleared up, sooner rather than later.
pops |
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| morilla |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 9:09 pm |
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Reviews written: 205 Member since: Oct 09 '04
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RE: what to say...
Quote: popsrocks I don't have to say anything to them. They are big boys and girls and can make their own decisions...It's a viable option to sitting around doing nothing or wringing hands, or feeling badly...If there's an attitude that they don't want to review anything but product in a particular category then as big boys and girls they have to decide if waiting works...What else can be said right now. We don't like it but it doesn't help to dwell on it either...Choices are there to be made. From my observation there are plenty of people who are very happy writing without getting IS. I see people writing one review after the next in the spirit and food category where not a cent of IS is forthcoming...Just about every person who has jumped on those bandwagons should know by now that it's not a place for earning IS and quite frankly I don't believe a place with much future for IS, even after the bugs are shaken out..We all know there are problems on the site right now but, I simply can't continue dwelling on the negatives...As a big boy I'm going to write more reviews that don't have the /review/ issue attached...Could I leave the site, sure. Could others and have others? Sure. That's simply not my choice...There's nothing to say. They must make up their own mind. There are many options out there." Epinions knows it, I know it, and big boys and girls know it.
pops
I think the thrust of what you're saying is quite clear. Parse it out anyway you wish. In the end, if you're tired of hearing about the problems, then my suggestion would be to heed the advice passed on to those making the noise, just don't read the posts; i.e., "dwell on it." That would be a choice you could make. I don't blame you for being tired of hearing about the problems. I'm tired of dealing with them - period.
What I'm saying is that telling people to "grow up and deal with it" is not very helpful. You backed out as moderator so you could write more reviews. You've diversified so that you can 'ride out problems' in any particular category. Fine. If that's your experience on Epinions, more power to you. Be fruitful and multiply. Enjoy.
But, be aware that this is not everyone's experience on the site. It doesn't make them whiners. It doesn't make traitors, non-Kool-Aid drinkers, disloyal, foolish, stupid, or immature boys and girls who need to grow up and make adult choices. It makes them individuals with a different experience, different expectations, and, in many respects, very real assets to the site. If they choose to make their frustrations, observations, and expereiences known in a rational and constructive way, then they have made an 'adult' choice. It may not be your preferred choice. But, there it is.
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| popsrocks |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 9:21 pm |
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Reviews written: 2202 Member since: Aug 25 '02
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RE: what to say...
Quote: morilla ...
Them be my thoughts on the matter.
Expressed and understood. I will state that I don't believe we are on different sides of the problematic issues. I have raised my voice more than once.
At this particular point in my Epinions experience I was responding to a question on "What to say" and reflecting what I believe is all that can reasonably be done. Aside from hoping all the problems are "fixed" do you have any reasonable advice to that question given to me?
Perhaps it was my tone, perhaps the lack of answers I can't give for this site's problems, or perhaps it is your frustration combined with the both, but again, please don't accuse me of telling people to shut up or leave.
That's not my thing.
pops
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| gamblin_man |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 9:25 pm |
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Reviews written: 416 Member since: Apr 08 '01
in Home & Garden |
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RE: what to say...
Quote: popsrocks Everywhere I noted what can be done whether work to diversify, continue making a few dollars through the $20-4-10VH reviews or simply to wait out the problem of the issues.
Thanks,
pops
I did not read the post as suggesting anyone should leave. What I got from that post is that we have what we have and can live with it or make other decisions, assuming that the future will be better than today. I also felt a rebuke toward those who cannot stay positive in this time of trial.
I tried writing for the 10-4-10 and found that not rewarding to me. I tried diversifying into nine other categories beyond H&G and found that most of the reviews I wrote are not doing any better than those I had in the can before Black Tuesday. I have now decided to wait and see if the future gets better than today. I am not on the verge of leaving, but I will not write reviews that either are not seen by anyone or that generate IS only for others to enjoy.
As a CL I should be more positive and I am about the future. I do believe the worst problems will be only a memory by the end of summer. I don't think, however, that the hits and IS lost during the months since Black Tuesday will or can be restored to those who are suffering. Many of the older reviews will never again see the hits or IS that they saw up until November of '07.
If it turns out that most of the reviews I wrote while trying to build one of the categories in Home nad Garden, over two-thirds of my total output, are in the forever lost group, I will then consider leaving, but not now.
I do, however, think that the General Forum is a place that those of us who love the site and feel the pain of its current problems should be able to come without fear of being rebuked for stating our honest feelings and trying to let others know we, too, feel the anguish.
Larry
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| shopaholic_man |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 9:26 pm (Updated: Jun 05 '08, 9:27 pm) |
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Reviews written: 1058 Member since: Feb 15 '04
in Movies |
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RE: what to say...
Sooo..... every one having a good night?
I went to see a horrible movie, The Strangers.
I am going to bed. |
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| phungus |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 9:33 pm |
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Reviews written: 2320 Member since: Aug 31 '99
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RE: what to say...
Quote: shopaholic_man Sooo..... every one having a good night?
I went to see a horrible movie, The Strangers.
I am going to bed.
I drank some beer and played guitar, celebrating the day before Friday. =) |
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| popsrocks |
Posted: Jun 05 '08, 9:48 pm |
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Reviews written: 2202 Member since: Aug 25 '02
in Gourmet, Restaurants |
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RE: what to say...
Quote: gamblin_man I did not read the post as suggesting anyone should leave. What I got from that post is that we have what we have and can live with it or make other decisions, assuming that the future will be better than today. I also felt a rebuke toward those who cannot stay positive in this time of trial.
Larry
Though I try and keep a positive demeanor at most times I, like you Larry, have expressed my dissatisfaction with many of the site's issues. I know I have lost thousands of views and much IS in Restaurants, and the dozens of games I have reviewed are no longer available to be read or gaining IS. We are all hurting whether we have big numbers or not.
In all the time I complained I never felt rebuked.
Today I was simply responding to a question of "What to say..." I said it and no rebuke was intended.
I do apologize if there was such a feeling. That was not my intention.
pops |
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